Tuesday, August 23, 2011
Blog #1, Due 9/13: How do you interpret Baudrillard's concept of the simulacra? Identify/describe other simulacras...
Hi all- it's been a pleasure having all of you in class and talking with you! For your first blog entry which is due by 12:00PM on 9/13, please respond to the question posed above as you also read through your peers' responses. In your responses, please take into consideration class discussions, readings, peer comments, and outside experiences, etc. Please note the authors and theories we have discussed in your responses. Your answer is thorough when you have included these aspects. Have fun!
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I think Baudrillard's concept of simulacra means an object, idea, concept, or pretty much anything that ever existed is copied from something else, or everything that has ever been created is merely just a copy without the original. Some other simulacras I can think of would be art as we discussed in class, or other types of art such as music and film making. None of these ideas are original but have built off of prior basic concepts. After reading Baudrillard's idea of simulacra it is difficult to determine what is original or a simulation.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, Lee. Baurdrillard's is focusing on how unoriginal popular culture is. Take The lead singer of Weezer vs Buddy Holly, Lady Gaga vs Madonna, or Janis Joplin vs Bessie Smith just for a couple of musical examples. I agree with Baudrillard largely in that I do believe that it is EXTREMELY difficult to come up with a genuinely new idea. What makes us unique in my eyes is the way in which people can combine old ideas. For example, one might say that Lady Gaga is unique and original individual. But none of her ideas are truly original. Did she invent dance pop? No Did she invent the assault rifle? No. Did she invent lingerie? Also no. But she may be one of the only people to wear an assault rifle bra in a dance pop music video. Even true "inventors" do not invent in a genuine way. They combine knowlege of various things to create something with a specific purpose. It is the COMBINATION of old ideas which makes a new object or musical phenomenon. Even the words that I am typing right now are nothing truly original. I didn't invent any of these words or letters, but I did combine them in a way that the world has never seen before...
ReplyDeleteI interpret Baudrillard's concept of the simulacra as everything in the world is a replica of something that has been. I agree with John when he's saying how hard it is to come up with a new idea. Usually its an old idea, a combination of old ideas, or a twist on an old idea. But if you look at it like a recipe... You have your grandmother's recipe for something or another and you change it up; you add your own sauce or add different spices, etc. Now it's your recipe. It is a somewhat of a new recipe. A good simulacra that I can think of is Andy Warhol's pieces. He takes old pieces of art, combines them in an interesting way, and creates a new meaning. Now, does the new meaning signify that its somewhat original? I feel like you can argue both sides.
ReplyDeletethese responses are excellent, not only did i read it but this discussion really helps me to understand it fully. The video of banksy sums it up soooo well, one man using old ideas from thousands and thousands of artists to come up with something that stands out, so in my eyes, i agree with the previous post, andy warhol much like mister brain wash put a new meaning on something that in the past had an incredibly different meaning. since i am a bike guy i will use them in my description. an original steel frame was made many moons ago, heavy and bulky, for racing it was destined to evolve. with that original idea a bike has gone from 40 plus lbs. to just under 5 in some cases with new tech. now biking takes on new meaning in a way that everyone can do it, everyone can race it, and the newer parts of that amazing recipe are helping make them safe. now the old way is still in effect so the idea is not new, but the evolution is. Laura, i can also argue both sides, therefore it makes it an idea that is very up in the air haha..
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the four comments above, I understand better what Baudrillard is trying to explain. Opie talks about the video of Banksy and now that I have a great understanding of Simulacra and simulation the movie explains it very well. Mister Brain Wash investigate the different artists then got inspired to make his own art from his experience with the street artists. His art had the style of a street artist mixed with his own insane personality. He created a new kind of art that showed his personality. I can relate to Laura's example with her grandma's recipe and having the idea or details but changing them so it fits what you want the outcome to be. Artist make things from their own imagination and the vision they had in their head.
ReplyDeleteI think Baudrillard's idea of simulacra is that nothing truly is original anymore. Today people are creating copies of others work or adding slight variations. Lee I agree that film making and music are also simulacra’s. It seems Hollywood is struggling to produce films unless they are part of a sequel. However, I agree with Laura that each artist adds a new meaning to the object by adding a variation. I feel this is why we always view art today as new ideas opposed to copies upon copies. Thierry Guetta from the movie in class is a prime example because he follows other street artists around while they work, gathering ideas, only to one day become known as Mr. Brain Wash. Watching Exit Through the Gift Shop in class definitely changed my outlook about the idea of simulacra’s. Previously, I would have never seen the work of an artist as a copy of someone else, but rather as a totally new idea. It opened my eyes that there truly are few original things in the world today, which makes me wonder how do you know if something is truly original?
ReplyDeleteThese answers are awesome! John- I like what you said about how new ideas are ultimately based on new contexts or hybrids joining with others. I agree with Heather about music which is why some people cast Madonna, Lil Wayne, Nikki Minaj, Gaga, as knock offs of prior musicians-- and that the audience is craving newness and not reincarnations of others.
ReplyDeleteAs everyone has already stated here, Baudrillard's concept of Simulacra is simple: unoriginality has consumed every part of the world. The words "We are all Tasadays" ring true. We were all taken from our original surroundings the moment we were born and thrown into a society where nothing is actually real. I agree wholly with Lee and Heather on the Simulacra of filmmaking - but it's not just sequels that are being produced due to unoriginality. There are whole movie ideas being stripped from their original (or not so original) creator and thrust into the hands of another (where credit was given because most older movies aren't found in current popular culture). For the lack of a better resource - Wikipedia has comprised a list of movie remakes (found http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_film_remakes_A-M and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_film_remakes_N-Z). There are movies that may keep the same title such as Clash of the Titans or the upcoming Footloose and Dirty Dancing - because those movies are legendary icons of those filmmaking eras. There are other movies such as The Ring and The Grudge that are ripped from their original Japanese culture and thrust into America's way of film (this happens more often than one would think in reference to any culture's way of film). And then you have films such as I Am Legend which is a remake of Omega Man which is a remake of The Last Man on Earth (which is technically a film adaptation of the book I Am Legend). So the newest remake is actually the original story? Or is the first film the original story? etc, etc. Fashion is also a Simulacra each and everyone of us takes part in every single day. I didn't make the dress I'm wearing, or the tights, or the flannel or anything for that matter. But I do put them all together in a way most people wouldn't agree with or have probably ever attempted to wear before. Even in class we each shared the set-up of our room. Interior design is all a copy of a copy. We see something we like in a magazine or in someone else's room such as the color scheme, a specific poster, set of drawers, etc. So we apply that to our own tastes in our own living space. We even take on our friend's personalities sometimes - especially when it comes to often said phrases or words. We do it because it fits us as a person but it surely not our own original ideas that made it so.
ReplyDeleteAs I read all the comments from above and talk about the whole simulacra concept with friends, I understand what I read much better. Everyone has made excellent points so far, and I agree with them all. However, the comments themselves are basically just copies of copies because none of the ideas are original. I agree with John and SJ when they were talking about music. Not one of those artists came up with the idea for their personas or the music in the background of the songs; yet they did decide how to combine the things they know and what they've heard before in their own unique way, which does make it original. I also agree with Laura, Michelle, and Heather on their thoughts about art. Honestly, I've never REALLY thought about art in that way--that there is no original, only copies. I knew Warhol just copied paintings but changed colors and whatnot, but until these comments and watching Exit Through The Gift Shop, I didn't think of it as not really being his own work. Now, when I see art or a movie, I question if it's someone else's idea...just revamped.
ReplyDeleteThe idea of simulacra honestly blows my mind. It makes me think, "I wonder how many people have thought this before me." or "Did someone else write these exact words somewhere else before I did? Does that mean I'm plagiarizing?"
Everyone has made interesting points about the concept. As a musician, there's only so many chords, progressions and notes a person can play. You're bound to copy someone else's progression at some point when you write a song. However; if you want captivate your audience you have to take that "copy" and expand upon in and try to add you're own originality. I interpreted Baudrillard's idea of simulacra as there are no longer original ideas, but copied ideas that people have (or are) expanding upon. As I said, being a musician, I understand this concept and have grown to accept it. It's not longer about who is the most original, but who can take that original idea and expand it, and make people notice it. The people, art, etc. in popular culture today are those that have successfully done that.
ReplyDeleteBefore reading Baudrillard's Simulacra and Simulation, I never thought of music, art or other forms of expression as copies. However, Baudrillard's concept of the simulacra has opened my eyes to the reality of simulation and the fact that it now seems almost impossible for these things to actually be originals. Whether these copies are made consciously like the addition of ingredients to a recipe as Laura mentioned, or subconsciously, like the personas of many pop music artists of today as John stated, the origin of these simulacra's are based off of someone else's ideas. Though ideas can be combined and changed, the initial concept is not original which makes many things in the world today various simulacra's.
ReplyDeleteAs previously stated, simulacra is the idea that every idea has come from something before. Everything is just a copy of something previous, whether it's artwork or music, or even the comments in this blog like Tia Smith proposed. I agree with Caitlyn Turk when she says that fashion is a simulacra in the sense that it is inspired by what came before. In the summer I was at the mall and almost every store had some sort of fringed vest or legging which are trends that can be found in other decades. It makes you wonder when the originals of art, music, and fashion were created. It makes you wonder if any idea that you ever had has been your own or just a simulacra of everything previous.
ReplyDeleteThe comments that were posted above are all different ways that Baudrillard's concept of simulacra can be interpreted as. I think that it is nearly impossible to come up with a new idea because usually somehow you are inspired by something to make that new idea. People do not just snap their fingers and develop original ideas. Their past influences and experiences have an influence on them which would make an idea impossible to be original. I really agree with Laura in the sense that everything is merely a replication of something that has been. Also for someone to say that their idea is original would be nearly impossible just as John stated in his post. I think films really show the concept of simulacra’s because so many films have very similar plots but different twist to every story. These films are technically original because they are not an exact copy, but they have influences from other films. In Banksy’s film he makes it very obvious that Mr. Brainwash follows all different artists around and takes ideas from each to create his own art. Most artists see themselves as original because their ideas come straight from their own minds. I feel that all those ideas and thoughts are a large collaboration of influences and experiences they have previously had. This again shows that their ideas originally came from others who most likely did the same thing.
ReplyDeleteOn a recent trip to the beach with my girlfriend i asked her why everyone was dressed up like it was the 80's, she told me that is the new fashion with the bright neon colors and off the shoulder shirts and cutoff tops and tights. I remember these fashions from my childhood and was freaked out, this to me is a perfect description of Baudrillard's concept of Simulacra, everything is repeating. Jamie and Caitlyn as well as John are right on track with the ideas of how musicians and fashion tend to repeat themselves. I think a lot of this comes from musicians hearing something and liking it themselves and realizing that the people like it as well and see it as a winning idea, that is why we can hear songs like Lupe fiasco the show goes on using the song Float On by Modest Mouse and just changing a few lines and the tempo. ( I had to play them both for my girl to finally agree it was the same stuff.)
ReplyDeleteAll of the comments posted above are very good answers. I translated Baudrillard’s philosophy as everything in the world such as media culture, language, etc. is a replicated and changed to look as if it’s original. There are three orders of simulacra that focus on counterfeits/false imagery, the production of these false images, and ultimate simulation. I personally feel as if nothing is original anymore and the world is running out of creative ideas. A perfect example of this is the music industry. Most of the songs that are being produced today use tunes from previous songs. Sometimes I don’t even realize the songs are unoriginal until my parents mention it. However, after I read Baudrillard’s philosophy I will never expect anything to be original. It is almost impossible for artists, companies, producers, etc. to come up with new ideas because the ideas are always inspired by someone/something else. Another great example of simulacra is style. Each year “new” styles are created and advertised at stores all over the world when in reality, they are replicas of clothing from previous years. This reading really opened my eyes as to what is real and what isn’t in this world.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I have gathered from Baudrillard and his philosophy of the simulacrum, original ideas and content are meaningless, and the line between reality and simulation is gone. This doesn't mean that there are no new or original concepts being pushed forward today, it simply means that the hyper reality that we live in so transfixes our lives that we can not perceive reality, or originality, in any meaningful way. I've read Borges and I can appreciate Baudrillard's allusion, but a more apt comparison for this classes digestion (as opposed to early 20th century Argentinian short fiction writers) would be the Matrix. Those living inside the Matrix were so captivated by their surroundings, that when they were forced out of them (a la Neo), they had reactions of physical sickness (the sickness being the deterioration of the simulacrum around them). Reality still existed, but it was preceded and transposed upon them by the simulacrum of the Matrix. Some of those outside of the Matrix were still transfixed by this hyper realism, and preferred to be "plugged back in to" the simulacrum that was the modern world. The real world exists, but we don't want it. We instead strive for the hyper real, uninterested in what is meaningful or "real", whatever that means.
ReplyDeleteBefore reading Baudrillard's theory on that everything is copies of copies I was very skeptical. I thought that although some "new" material was similar to others a lot of what we've have been exposed to is original. However, after reading comments from our classmates I realized how much of what is coming out today has been taken from something earlier. For example, take tosh.0 and the new MTV show Ridiculousness. Both of the shows take videos from the internet and use them to entertain people. Although there are small differences between them, the majority of the shows are based off the same idea. Furthermore, the movie industy as various people above have stated are recycling movie concepts or just adding a two or three onto it. From reading Baudrillard and the comments everyone has made its sort of scary to see how much of the "new" material coming out isn't so new after all.
ReplyDeleteBaudrillard's concept of simulacrum is the idea that everything from the past is being copied and repeated in today's culture. One only has to go as far as the film industry to see examples of simulacrum. Disturbia, a movie staring Shia LaBeouf was made in 2007. A few months after watching Disturbia, I saw Rear Window with Jimmie Stewart, which was made in 1954. Both plots are almost identical to one another. It was right around that time that I realized that everything copies off of something in the past, especially in pop culture. Another example of simulacrum in cinema is how the Prestige and Illusionist were both made in 2006. Both movies had very similar
ReplyDeleteplots and were released in the same year. Before that time, I cannot recall another mainstream movie that focused on magicians. Ryan brought up a great point about tosh.0 and Ridiculousness as well. Both of these shows are copies of an earlier show, The Soup. Most people worry that everything is a copy of something else. I think about the quote, "Don't reinvent the wheel. Learn from what others have already done." Maybe other people have new ideas but are afraid to express them and be seen as different. So instead those same people just try to improve on ideas that have already been accepted by the mainstream culture. In the film, Exit Through the Gift Shop, Guetta recognized what people liked and he used it. Instead of taking ideas from just Banksy, Guetta took ideas from numerous people within the graffiti community and used all of their ideas to become a success and it worked. Guetta is now considered a respected member of the community and all he did was steal others ideas. Most think Guetta was unoriginal, I think he was brilliant.
When Tia said that essenetially all these comments are copies of each other, I would have never thought of something that simple. It never really crossed my mind that everything is a reccreation of something else. Baudrillard's book really made me think because it was way too hard to get through. Now that I am aware that at this point in time no one has an original thought, it makes me take back my thoughts on music. The example about Lupe using a Modest Mouse song was one that is current. I heard that song and was like what a song to use for a rap song. When I hear a song that has clearly taken the beat from another song I think wow there is no originallity to this song. However, now there seems like there isn't any originallity. That seems a little pessimistic, but we know have to change our views of creativity. When Thierry was copying everyone's ideas and trying to make as much money as possible, I kind of would have preferred him to copy the artists mindset of doing it just for the art and not for the greed. Theirry wanted to be the great artist and mystery that Banksy was but he couldnt hold the mystery. I think if we are able to question or something holds mystery than I can be ok with calling something original, even knowing that someone got an idea from another person. If it is blatant and there is no effort in trying to make something their own, then our world is going to be going in circles fast with all the exact remakes we are coming out with.
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ReplyDeleteWhile I believe that there is some validity to the concept of simulacra, I think there are certain degrees of it. Yes, it is impossible to come up with an original idea independent of some sort of outside influence (there is a whole school of philosophy called empiricism that is devoted to this phenomenon); however, there is a difference between drawing on your experiences for inspiration and being unoriginal. Often times, that line is drawn by copyrights and patents. Nobody will invent a new chord progression on their acoustic guitar, but they can still write an original song. Perhaps it will focus on concepts that have already been written or sung about but nobody else has had the experience of the musician that influenced and culminated in this particular song. This concept though, I do not think applies to Thierry of Exit Through the Gift Shop. I think that his art is similar to a student's plagiarized essay. Just like a student may take bits and pieces of different essays and compile them into one, Thierry took concepts found in different street art pieces and compiled them into one art show. Just as a student plagiarizes not out of passion but obligation (because the teacher tells them to), Thierry created his art not out of passion but because Banksy told him to. Also, the assurance that it would be a major money-making success was certainly an incentive. Simulacra did not apply to Thierry, nor does it apply to plagiarizing students. There is a fine line between what is original and what is a stolen idea, and often times it is completely subjective. Simulacra though, does exist in the same way that empiricism does; no idea is created independently of some sort of life experience, observation, etc. Everything is relatable to something else, but it is still possible to be innovative and revolutionary.
ReplyDeleteI interpret Baudrillard's concept of the simulacra basically as he is saying that originality is dead and has been for awhile. We are all living under the illusion that our ideas and actions have never been done before; that we are unique in our thoughts when that isn't the case. Exit Through the Gift Shop offered a fantastic insight into our world filled with copies of copies. You are able to see the transition from one artist's work into another one's like the way Bansky's work gets tweaked by Thierry. The world of entertainment is a perfect example of simulacras becoming an established part of our reality. As was previously mentioned by my classmates in the above entries, fashion, art, and music have become copies of what has come before. However, this does not always have to be seen as something negative. Lady Gaga has been clearly influenced by Madonna; elements of her persona have become a part of Lady Gaga's. This does not mean that Lady Gaga doesn't have her own ideas or talents, but that she has identified with and adopted parts of Madonna's performance as her own because of the influence it has had on her. This can be seen throughout all genres of music. When you listen to rock bands you can often hear through their own music who their own influences have been. The Beatles have been influencing musicians since the 1960s, you can hear elements of their style in the music of Oasis and other bands. Once again, this seems only natural when faced with the reality that what we believe is original, has simply become actions and thoughts based on our own influences.
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